The current deal

[flesh99]

So I haven't been as much as I would like to be. Here is the reason(s). It's sort of long so bear with me. I could use some advice so anything anyone has to say would be appreciated.

I have a sister (actually I have two but this only concerns one). She is an addict, self centered, a horror to be around, and on top of all the mother of four children from three different fathers.

Two of her kids are living with me. This means that sometimes the youngest is here as well. Also this means she is here at times. Also this means my mom is around a lot.

My food bills have gone up drastically because no-one bothers minding the rules of snacking being off limits, portions that are healthy and age appropriate at meals, drinking water outside of mealtimes and so on. On any given night I am feeding two more adults and three more children (four every other weekend) than I normally feed. This has actually more than doubled my food bills. My electric bill has doubled because no-one shuts any of the doors when they go outside.

(Pardon the rambling)

My sister herself complains about the kids bathroom smelling (we are potty training two kids and scrub it every day but the smell happens), sits in the garage with the door open (which I have asked her not to do), comes and goes with impunity and leaves her kids here or worse takes them with her on school nights and comes back at the wee hours only to leave my wife taking care of getting her kids to school, brings over "friends" who are obviously on drugs, complains about the food cooked, noise in the house during the day while she tries to sleep (sometimes for, quite literally, days). Tells her kids they don't have to obey the rules of the house while she is here. Has had the gall to yell at me in front of my children about the rules.

We are doing all of this because the kids we are keeping were with their dad and he started drinking again. So they couldn't stay there. She has court ordered custody but is not responsible enough to take care of them. We insure they eat, go to school, bathe, and so on. The kids are not the problem as long as she stays the hell away. It's when she is here that the problems happen.

Today she got a child support check and gathered the kids to go buy heelies. Nevermind that I am actually not doing well financially going from 400 to 800 in the past two weeks on food. Ignore that completely. I have had enough. Herein lies the problem. If I say anything to her about these things here reaction is that she gathers the kids and goes somewhere else. This put them in bad situations. She doesn't use around them but her "friends" are less than savory and she doesn't always take them to school. So I am between a rock and hard place. I feel like a prisoner in my own damn home at the moment. I get home and go into the bedroom and read. I haven't cooked much because with my mom around I don't have to because it gets done. The problem is that I love cooking. I am stuck hiding in my own home because I am trying to help my sister's kids. I don't know what to do. Throwing the kids to the wolves isn't an option but I have to do something. I cannot afford this anymore mentally or financially and the stress isn't helping my health at the moment.

So please accept my apologies for not being around as much as I should and anyone who has any advice please let me know!

[WesleyJohn]

Wow...

a lot of ideas come to mind, but none of them are really good. I don't suppose you could offer to take the kids (completely), until she gets back on her feet? i.e., you'll take responsibility for the kids, but she can't live with you.

Are there areas of concern that she has? Any chance that you can open the door for dialogue by seeking to address her concerns with the living arrangements? I agree with your desire to put the kids and their needs first...but you have to be able to set some boundaries on the arrangement that are mutually beneficial.

Hmmm....

[flesh99]

Wow...

a lot of ideas come to mind, but none of them are really good. I don't suppose you could offer to take the kids (completely), until she gets back on her feet? i.e., you'll take responsibility for the kids, but she can't live with you.

Are there areas of concern that she has? Any chance that you can open the door for dialogue by seeking to address her concerns with the living arrangements? I agree with your desire to put the kids and their needs first...but you have to be able to set some boundaries on the arrangement that are mutually beneficial.

Hmmm....
Her answer to any sort of compromise is "Then we need to go live somewhere else RIGHT NOW". This was evident the other night when my mom made manwich and everyone but my oldest boy had eaten seconds. There was about enough left for one sandwich. I told her daughter to wait (for thirds) and she went off about living somewhere where her kids didn't starve. My wife, and those who have heard me talk about her will be shocked by this, almost stood up and told her "The you pay for their food".

Her latest rant is about how no-one wants to help her because they won't pay her phone bill, fix her car (which she loaned to someone who messed up the rim), and so on. If everything isn't handed to her on a silver platter she claims no-one will help her. I am to blame because two years ago I didn't think was stable enough to go into business with and now if we had everything would be fine for her (according to her). I don't get how anyone could be so selfish that if people won't pay for everything for her then it's not her fault she can't get out of her situation. I only wish it were hyperbole.

Thanks to her and her subverting my rules on food consumption I have less than 100 in the bank to last until next payday and if she keeps up we will run out of food. It is quickly coming to a situation where I will have to kick her and the kids out to be able to feed my own and I am trying to avoid that. My kids are developing bad habits because of what she lets her kids do. I am completely at a loss. I am a giving person but I think I might have found my limit. When it comes to taking food out of my kids mouths I think I have to draw a line but then what of her kids? They didn't do anything to deserve the situation.

My poor mom can't draw lines. Her and my dad have 50.00 in the bank and my dad drives for a living and has to buy gas. He has to make until Wed when he gets paid and there is no way. They this little because she caves in to my sister constantly and feeds her money. I am at a total loss. There is no way to talk to her without the "Then we'll just leave if you don't want to help us" coming out. My mom even paid off her warrants which was my last idea on how to deal with this.

[WesleyJohn]

And, you don't think she's bluffing?

In other words, if she said, "Then we need to go live somewhere else RIGHT NOW," and you said, "I'm sorry you feel that way, but if that's your decision, I won't stop you," then she really would leave and take the kids?

[flesh99]

WJ I do appreciate your advice. I really do. I wanted to make sure you realized that outside my further whinging on. Thank you for taking the time to respond brother!

[flesh99]

And, you don't think she's bluffing?

In other words, if she said, "Then we need to go live somewhere else RIGHT NOW," and you said, "I'm sorry you feel that way, but if that's your decision, I won't stop you," then she really would leave and take the kids?
She has and they missed a week of school and it was my fault according to her. She doesn't bluff. I hate to say it but in her mental state it's all what's on her mind and completely impulsive. If she is mad at me she takes the kids and leaves. So I walk on eggshells so those babies can go to school and sleep in the same bed every night. I love those kids and they are good kids overall...

[WesleyJohn]

I imagine that letting her leave and then filing a DHS (Department of Human Services...or whatever the Texas counterpart is) complaint/report is out of the question?

[Swart]

I've actually been through the mill with this one. I have two bits of advice:


Never, ever give in to emotional blackmail.
Never, ever give in to emotional blackmail.You simply cannot afford to care more about another person than they do. The "I'm not responsible for myself" line is poison that affects everyone in the family if you will allow it. WJ's advice is spot on. You have rules for what goes on under your roof and anyone who refuses to follow those rules is not welcome. She will say all sorts of whinging, moaning, abusive things. Then she'll try on the guilt trip. Then will come the anger and hatred. Then will come the tears. Once you get to that point, then you'll be able to reach her: maybe.

Sometimes people have to hit rockbottom.

Remember. This is affecting your family negatively. You are the guardian of that family in a role entrusted to you by God. You need to protect your immediate family from all threats - internal or external.

[flesh99]

I imagine that letting her leave and then filing a DHS (Department of Human Services...or whatever the Texas counterpart is) complaint/report is out of the question?
Having dealt with the Houston division of these folks and having seen first hand the problems with the foster situation here as well I can honestly say the kids are better off with us. It is about to be the summer and that will eliminate the school issue. In fact that happens in three days. I have had CPS called on me and without the kids being in physical danger I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy. She isn't going to get them hurt but they need stability. She knows enough to drop them off with family when she is going to go on a bender. She isn't using right now but will do it again if history is any evidence. When she does she will drop them here or with my mom and disappear. She never puts them in danger just in situations that could be better. I honestly don't think DHS would do anything. There are never illegal substances around when the kids are around. For an addict she protects them very well from that part of her life. It's her seflishness that is the issue and DHS won't do anything about that.

[flesh99]

I've actually been through the mill with this one. I have two bits of advice:

Never, ever give in to emotional blackmail.
Never, ever give in to emotional blackmail.You simply cannot afford to care more about another person than they do. The "I'm not responsible for myself" line is poison that affects everyone in the family if you will allow it. WJ's advice is spot on. You have rules for what goes on under your roof and anyone who refuses to follow those rules is not welcome. She will say all sorts of whinging, moaning, abusive things. Then she'll try on the guilt trip. Then will come the anger and hatred. Then will come the tears. Once you get to that point, then you'll be able to reach her: maybe.

Sometimes people have to hit rockbottom.

Remember. This is affecting your family negatively. You are the guardian of that family in a role entrusted to you by God. You need to protect your immediate family from all threats - internal or external.
It's not blackmail. She means it. And she doesn't expect me to change. She doesn't ask me to change. She wants things her way or she will leave. Right now I simply don't fight about it. I have to do that for three more days. Then it will be summer and they can couch surf with her. You see leaves and then comes back and it starts all over. She knows I am not going to give in on the rules and she's not getting any money from me. Outside of school for the kids I want to be a safe harbor for them so they know they have someplace safe. She does give in and follow the rules if she doesn't have any other couch on which to sleep. I am her last choice. She leaves the kids here all the time and is only around one or two days a week. Those days are hell. My mom, bless her sainted soul, took the kids to her house today and the sister unit is gone off somewhere so there is calm here. I almost don't know what to do.

I wish it was as simple as emotional blackmail. I could deal with that. It is pure selfishness and nothing less. It is the most pure selfishness I have ever had the displeasure of seeing. She's hit rock bottom. She's a convicted felon who was stupid enough to not tell the cops what they already knew to get out it. She got locked down for stuff she didn't do because "I'm no rat". Now it wasn't that she cared about her friends. This where you really see the selfishness. She did it so she wouldn't feel like a rat. She didn't even like the people she thought she was protecting. She wasn't even protecting them. The detective liked her and tried to cut her a break. They all went down without her turning and she got to feel good about not being a rat. I would try the tough love thing but it would be undermined by my mom who thinks she's helping her.

I really wish it was emotional blackmail. I really do.

[seebs]

It is blackmail, though. She is making a threat to coerce you. That she's serious about the threat doesn't make it not a real threat.

I don't know about this, but it really sounds to me like it'd honestly be cheaper if you were able to get custody of the kids, because then they'd be your kids, and you could feed them reasonably.

Right now, it sounds to me like the problem is that she can get free stuff (even if it's not money) from you, and she's abusing this. I don't see an easy solution, but I think at this point, I'd document everything nicely for the governmental sorts, because I think that your chances of getting the kids to a responsible parent (possibly you) would be better.

I don't know what else to say, though. Man, does that suck.

[praying]

So I haven't been as much as I would like to be. Here is the reason(s). It's sort of long so bear with me. I could use some advice so anything anyone has to say would be appreciated.

I have a sister (actually I have two but this only concerns one). She is an addict, self centered, a horror to be around, and on top of all the mother of four children from three different fathers.

Two of her kids are living with me. This means that sometimes the youngest is here as well. Also this means she is here at times. Also this means my mom is around a lot.

My food bills have gone up drastically because no-one bothers minding the rules of snacking being off limits, portions that are healthy and age appropriate at meals, drinking water outside of mealtimes and so on. On any given night I am feeding two more adults and three more children (four every other weekend) than I normally feed. This has actually more than doubled my food bills. My electric bill has doubled because no-one shuts any of the doors when they go outside.

(Pardon the rambling)

My sister herself complains about the kids bathroom smelling (we are potty training two kids and scrub it every day but the smell happens), sits in the garage with the door open (which I have asked her not to do), comes and goes with impunity and leaves her kids here or worse takes them with her on school nights and comes back at the wee hours only to leave my wife taking care of getting her kids to school, brings over "friends" who are obviously on drugs, complains about the food cooked, noise in the house during the day while she tries to sleep (sometimes for, quite literally, days). Tells her kids they don't have to obey the rules of the house while she is here. Has had the gall to yell at me in front of my children about the rules.

We are doing all of this because the kids we are keeping were with their dad and he started drinking again. So they couldn't stay there. She has court ordered custody but is not responsible enough to take care of them. We insure they eat, go to school, bathe, and so on. The kids are not the problem as long as she stays the hell away. It's when she is here that the problems happen.

Today she got a child support check and gathered the kids to go buy heelies. Nevermind that I am actually not doing well financially going from 400 to 800 in the past two weeks on food. Ignore that completely. I have had enough. Herein lies the problem. If I say anything to her about these things here reaction is that she gathers the kids and goes somewhere else. This put them in bad situations. She doesn't use around them but her "friends" are less than savory and she doesn't always take them to school. So I am between a rock and hard place. I feel like a prisoner in my own damn home at the moment. I get home and go into the bedroom and read. I haven't cooked much because with my mom around I don't have to because it gets done. The problem is that I love cooking. I am stuck hiding in my own home because I am trying to help my sister's kids. I don't know what to do. Throwing the kids to the wolves isn't an option but I have to do something. I cannot afford this anymore mentally or financially and the stress isn't helping my health at the moment.

So please accept my apologies for not being around as much as I should and anyone who has any advice please let me know!


Flesh the last thing you need to do is apologize to us for being scarce. {{Hugs}}


It sounds to me like you have to bite the bullet and tell your sister it is either this way or get out. In terms of the kids since you are the major provider, roof food etc, make or else include going to court and getting custody. Otherwise I hate to say it but you are just enabling her to live the life she does. and it isn't healthy for the kids, whether she uses around them or not.


My brother died from drugs and we raised his kids, it isn't easy telling someone you love hey you can't do this and if you do X will happen but it is the only way.

[BelindaP]

(((flesh)))

It sounds to me like your sister has a serious mental illness. If that is the case, there is very little that you can do about her. However, you might want to consider appyling for some kind of help--either from the church or from one of the agencies. Since you are de facto paying for these kids, there might be some kind of help for you. Alternatively, there are things you could do to shrink your food budget. Your family may not like the new food choices, but they can be balanced and healthy and still fit within your budget. I guess you can sell it to your wife and kids as a sacrifice necessary to help out their cousins.

For breakfast unsweetened oatmeal and cereals are good. These can be bought in bulk to save even more money. They are suitably bland that the children are certain to self-limit on quantities. Check the labels to make sure they are fortified. That way the cereal with milk (powdered) is all you need for breakfast nutritionally.

Start cooking with a lot more rice, beans and cornbread. You can get 20# bags of rice, beans, lentils and cornmeal very inexpensively. Start using powdered milk, if not to drink then at least for any cooking that needs to be done. [You'd be amazed at how much money that alone saves.] Spaghetti and mac&cheese are always winners. A side salad will round out the meal nicely for either of these, and during the warm months, these can be found very inexpensively at farmers' markets. [Your cooking skills may become important to help maintain the sanity of those around you.]

Buy generic whenever possible. Also, vegetables should be local and in-season. That way they are the cheapest. If you shop smartly, you can go to GFS (Gordon Food Service) stores and get bulk items very cheaply. Some things there aren't a real bargain, but other things really are.

It will mean more shopping trips, but keep only a small amount of any prepared foods in the house at any one time. If all you have in your fridge are vegetables, that will be what they snack on. Larger amounts of staples such as flour, cornmeal, beans, etc. can be kept around, because they are not readily snackable.

When you and your immediate family can take the bland diet no longer, spring for a trip to Subway for just them. Your sister's kids don't need to be invited. Just announce that you're going shopping or something and slip out quietly.

I don't have a lot of advice for dealing with your sister, as my cardinal rule from dealing with my crazy relatives is to never argue with a crazy person. Well, actually I do, but I think you should do one thing at a time. It's easiest to start with the food budget.

[flesh99]

The good news is that my mom is taking the kids as soon as school is out. So I only have three more days to deal with all of this. I am so drained financially, mentally, and emotionally that Wednesday cannot come soon enough. At least it's almost over. My mom, however, is apparently planning to dip into my dad's life insurance get my sister an apartment. I have no control over that so I am just going to leave it alone. I did everything I could to help the kids and I know that. At the end of the day you only have so much to give. I could keep this up financially but emotionally I done. I offered help and she took everything I had to give and then some. I am going to need some recovery after this for sure.

[Swart]

(((flesh)))

It sounds to me like your sister has a serious mental illness. If that is the case, there is very little that you can do about her. However, you might want to consider appyling for some kind of help--either from the church or from one of the agencies. Since you are de facto paying for these kids, there might be some kind of help for you. Alternatively, there are things you could do to shrink your food budget. Your family may not like the new food choices, but they can be balanced and healthy and still fit within your budget. I guess you can sell it to your wife and kids as a sacrifice necessary to help out their cousins.

For breakfast unsweetened oatmeal and cereals are good. These can be bought in bulk to save even more money. They are suitably bland that the children are certain to self-limit on quantities. Check the labels to make sure they are fortified. That way the cereal with milk (powdered) is all you need for breakfast nutritionally.

Start cooking with a lot more rice, beans and cornbread. You can get 20# bags of rice, beans, lentils and cornmeal very inexpensively. Start using powdered milk, if not to drink then at least for any cooking that needs to be done. [You'd be amazed at how much money that alone saves.] Spaghetti and mac&cheese are always winners. A side salad will round out the meal nicely for either of these, and during the warm months, these can be found very inexpensively at farmers' markets. [Your cooking skills may become important to help maintain the sanity of those around you.]

Buy generic whenever possible. Also, vegetables should be local and in-season. That way they are the cheapest. If you shop smartly, you can go to GFS (Gordon Food Service) stores and get bulk items very cheaply. Some things there aren't a real bargain, but other things really are.

It will mean more shopping trips, but keep only a small amount of any prepared foods in the house at any one time. If all you have in your fridge are vegetables, that will be what they snack on. Larger amounts of staples such as flour, cornmeal, beans, etc. can be kept around, because they are not readily snackable.

When you and your immediate family can take the bland diet no longer, spring for a trip to Subway for just them. Your sister's kids don't need to be invited. Just announce that you're going shopping or something and slip out quietly.

I don't have a lot of advice for dealing with your sister, as my cardinal rule from dealing with my crazy relatives is to never argue with a crazy person. Well, actually I do, but I think you should do one thing at a time. It's easiest to start with the food budget.

This reminds me of when we were seriously short on funds. It's amazing what you can do to make a budget stretch. At one point I spent large amounts of time in the kitchen baking all manner of things, growing vegetables in the garden to cook with, making my own detergent (and fuel - that's another story). It's amazing how much you can save by just sticking to the staples of life.

Even now, I make an occasional shopping trip where I buy our meat, fish and vegetables wholesale. Potatoes are much cheaper by the sack than the bag (for instance). If you go with a friend, you can buy a side of lamb or beef or half a pork and have them cut it up for you. I typically get 20kgs of meat and 5kg box of fish and a 20kg sack of potatoes. Costs a small fortune, but lasts a few months in the freezer.

If you have the space, I strongly recommend raising chickens. :)

Of course, it does help if have the space to do all that.

[pageroks]

Have you considered getting an attorney and filing for custody in family court?

[butterfly]

Have things gotten better?

[flesh99]

They are gone. So things in my house are better. Finances are in recovery which was not helped by having to fire the lawn boy because he was getting way too familiar with the kids. I mean creepy familiar. So I let him go in no uncertain terms and he knows showing up here will be risking his life. But because of that and letters from the HOA I had to buy lawn equipment. We will be alright in 3 weeks now but damn tight until then. It sucks but we are not going to hit overdrawn. No cushion so if anything else comes up it could be catastrophic but I have faith.

[Swart]

... he knows showing up here will be risking his life.
ROTFL!!! :D

[gomichan]

Best of luck, Flesh. Here's hoping for calm seas for a while.

[flesh99]

ROTFL!!! :D
If only it were funny. He was really creepy. If I catch him around the kids I will react in a manner in which to protect my children because the cops refuse to do anything for "creepy".

Best of luck, Flesh. Here's hoping for calm seas for a while.
Tell me about it. I had to put off getting the van so we are still a pick-up only family which means we can't even get to church under our own steam right now. It's put off for two weeks and that's kind of harsh. Not that I can complain the truck we have was a gift from a couple at church when I wrecked the car. We are blessed and I should just focus on that. I have reliable transportation to work and it's pretty cool transportation to boot. Originally we thought it needed about 2k worth of work but the shop to which they had taken it was screwing them. It turns out to be about 750.00 worth of work that doesn't make it unsafe to drive while waiting and about 300.00 for new tires because I know a guy. So from 2500 to 1050 for everything up to damn near perfect along with 14 MPG with the AC on in a truck that is 11 years old and has a 302 in it. I would say I am really blessed.

[Swart]

Tell me about it. I had to put off getting the van so we are still a pick-up only family which means we can't even get to church under our own steam right now. It's put off for two weeks and that's kind of harsh. Not that I can complain the truck we have was a gift from a couple at church when I wrecked the car. We are blessed and I should just focus on that. I have reliable transportation to work and it's pretty cool transportation to boot. Originally we thought it needed about 2k worth of work but the shop to which they had taken it was screwing them. It turns out to be about 750.00 worth of work that doesn't make it unsafe to drive while waiting and about 300.00 for new tires because I know a guy. So from 2500 to 1050 for everything up to damn near perfect along with 14 MPG with the AC on in a truck that is 11 years old and has a 302 in it. I would say I am really blessed.

Uh. I don't mean to intrude here, but shouldn't a person with your skills be raking it in in the US? In Australia, I would sack an agent that couldn't get you an 80K gig.

I'm negotiating with a large client at the moment for a steady income for what should amount to 15-20 hours per week and it looks like I'm one of the low bidders.

[flesh99]

Uh. I don't mean to intrude here, but shouldn't a person with your skills be raking it in in the US? In Australia, I would sack an agent that couldn't get you an 80K gig.

I'm negotiating with a large client at the moment for a steady income for what should amount to 15-20 hours per week and it looks like I'm one of the low bidders.
I do alright. The problem was 5 years of webhosting. It doesn't translate well in the real world and webhosting is low pay. I am doing pretty good. Not too recently the issues that have come up would have us paying bills to keep them from shutting things off. Now we just have to budget and back down on certain things. We do end up with almost zero in the bank but have been spending on other things. We are spending some to repair our credit so we can get a house, laying out a large sum for lawn equipment, and so on. Our food bill went from 700 a month (or thereabouts) to almost 1200 a month with the sister and her horde here. And I am learning to actually manage money. I used to be damn horrible at it and now I am pretty good but still need to get better. Managing finances is something my parent never passed on to me so I have struggled with it. Even making great money I used to always be overdrawn and so on. Now we are paying every bill on time and have money in the bank when the next paycheck comes. It's a struggle but I am changing habits that are two decades old.

[ravenscape]

Congrats on those habit changes, Flesh! Hoping you guys get a no-surprises month or two this summer so you can build some cush.

[Swart]

I do alright. The problem was 5 years of webhosting. It doesn't translate well in the real world and webhosting is low pay. I am doing pretty good. Not too recently the issues that have come up would have us paying bills to keep them from shutting things off. Now we just have to budget and back down on certain things. We do end up with almost zero in the bank but have been spending on other things. We are spending some to repair our credit so we can get a house, laying out a large sum for lawn equipment, and so on. Our food bill went from 700 a month (or thereabouts) to almost 1200 a month with the sister and her horde here. And I am learning to actually manage money. I used to be damn horrible at it and now I am pretty good but still need to get better. Managing finances is something my parent never passed on to me so I have struggled with it. Even making great money I used to always be overdrawn and so on. Now we are paying every bill on time and have money in the bank when the next paycheck comes. It's a struggle but I am changing habits that are two decades old.

Okay, that explains it!