a "new" CF on July 7th?

[Tears of Ash]

http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=36415431

Discuss.

[Crazy Liz]

It's consistent with this PM I received a few days ago.
Just read this. My personal life is a bit nuts at the moment.

FWIW, you are one of the best members CF has ever had. I wish I had the time to invest in CF so that I could run it full-time, but I just don't have the time nor the resources to do so. Thanks for all the work you've put into CF - know that it is appreciated.

ProfessorMom, Erwin, Execs, my fellow Conciliators, staff and membership of CF,

I hereby resign from my position as a CF Conciliator.

I have several reasons, and I don't want to give different reasons to different groups of people I want to try to be completely open and honest about this, so here are my reasons for resigning:

1. I have felt for a little while that some members of staff and some former staff members view me as "the enemy," and will oppose any ideas I give, merely because they come from me. Since the purpose of Conciliators, in theory, is advocating for members while trying to constructively resolve conflicts between members and staff, my actions, even with the best intentions, have begun to do more harm to the members than good.

2. I no longer feel that the Ombudsman and Conciliators serve any function at CF, and I do not wish to hold a position that has no function.

The Execs are not interested in the members' POV, and Erwin is no longer insisting they listen. A new rule was added without any consultation with the Ombudsman or the Policy Manager. The DR was closed permanently without any consultation with the Ombudsman. This is contrary to Erwin's previous announcements about CF rule-making and to the spirit, if not the letter, of CF's FAQ concerning its governance structure. Erwin has allowed the Ombudsman's and Conciliators' positions to become roles with no effective function.

Member advocacy at CF has become a sham, which I no longer want any part of. I will not, by maintaining the title, tacitly endorse a governance structure which I know is no longer operational.

Whether I continue to post at CF in the future or leave the site entirely is still to be determined. I have many good friends here, not the least of whom have been Joykins and ProfessorMom, under whom I have served on the Conciliators team, and my Conciliator colleagues. They have my deepest respect and admiration, whether or not they agree with me that the team has become a sham in relation to its role in CF's governance, and no matter how their individual consciences lead them in relation to their titles and positions.

I have great admiration for the Pastoral team, especially for its former members, Abiel and Tall73, both of whom have been of great help to me and to many other CF members. There are other staff members and former staff members I greatly admire, too numerous to mention, but I want to give special recognition to nyj, who was my Admin on the Theology team. He recruited a diverse team and, with his co-Admin frumanchu, kept it running harmoniously and transparently, always with an eye to excellence and fairness.

Last, but not least, I want to thank Erwin for building this site and listening to the members. I do not blame him for wanting to retire from active operation of the site and reap the benefits of all the time he spent. I wish his vision could continue here without his day-to-day involvement. I think he built a great community and wants it to remain a community. I think he tried to create a balance by appointing an Executive Board and an Ombudsman & Conciliators to represent the members. However, with the Executives unwilling to listen to the Ombudsman and seek her input as member advocates, and without Erwin's involvement in seeing to it that the members' voice is heard at the highest level of CF governance, this balance is not sustainable.

I can no longer in good conscience maintain the title of Conciliator.

With all respect,

Crazy Liz

[Br. Max]

It will be good to have him back at the controls. Praying :D OH and I just made my very first post at CF in 6 months - minus one jab at iddie with a sock a couple of months back.

[drstevej]

I've come to realise that this is my website in the end, and it is my responsibility to ensure that it stays within my vision of how it should be.

Exactly the point of the Petition. Sounds encouraging.

Petition Text

Erwin,

We believe your decision to remove yourself from active involvement in directing the oversight and policy determination at CF was unwise and detrimental to the goals of the site. We believe your delegating this responsibility to the present Directors has been a failure and has resulted in the loss of key staff and has alienated many members. We believe many of their decisions have not been wise and have been decided in isolation from needed input. We believe there has been insufficient and defensive communication from the Directors. We believe some present staff are afraid to share their concerns for fear of being dismissed. We are not confident that the present Directors are serving in your best interests.

We urge you to return to active involvement to the ministry God entrusted to you. Your presence and insight is mission critical to CF's recovery from what we believe is a "broken" state.

Signed,

[ELyarek]

God bless Erwin!

[Tears of Ash]

Eh. I just made a long post in that thread. Kinda spoke my mind. Hope it wasn't out of line, I was just speaking from the heart.

[Harpuia]

We'll see what happens.

If all goes well, I might post in CF again on 7/8.

[Texas Lynn]

Is the date "7-7-7" a coincidence?

[Br. Max]

Is the date "7-7-7" a coincidence?NOPE! it;s a right wing Conspiracy! http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h302/brmax/smilies/yahoo_laughloud.gifhttp://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h302/brmax/smilies/yahoo_laughloud.gifhttp://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h302/brmax/smilies/yahoo_laughloud.gifhttp://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h302/brmax/smilies/yahoo_laughloud.gifhttp://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h302/brmax/smilies/yahoo_laughloud.gifhttp://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h302/brmax/smilies/yahoo_laughloud.gifhttp://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h302/brmax/smilies/yahoo_laughloud.gif

[Tears of Ash]

That's the date The Boredoms are having a concert in new york with 77 drummers. It will be awesome. Probably more awesome than the CF thing.

[Br. Max]

OKAY - so if she means this - why doesn't she do something about listening to us about CF policies? http://www.christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=36419410&postcount=20

[Br. Max]

Funny thing is - LOTS AND LOTS of former staff have posted in that thread - only 2 current staff and one is only a lowly mod - the other took the opportunity to hedge her bets and state she was willing to work with us all along ;)

[Pippa]

Why is that funny?

[Br. Max]

Why is that funny? Funny - HUMMMMMMM not funny HA HA.

[Tears of Ash]

is that a wonder showzen reference?

[Jello]

I'm excited!!!! I always thought, if Erwin would just come back, then things might get back to normal.

YaY!! Yay!!! YaY!!!!!!!!

[Boughtwithaprice]

Funny thing is - LOTS AND LOTS of former staff have posted in that thread - only 2 current staff and one is only a lowly mod - the other took the opportunity to hedge her bets and state she was willing to work with us all along ;)


hey, I posted in there.......I am only a supervisor, and that just barely, I wonder if I am considered staff by even staff

[Pippa]

You are considered as staff and valued.. :)

[ravenscape]

Pippa, who are you at CF?

[Jayne]

Well, when your information minister goes on other sites and cusses people out, that's gotta be bad for the image.

[Pippa]

Pippa, who are you at CF?

Hi ravenscape, at CF I am poppinskw :-)

[Pippa]

I agree, Its always bad when anyone goes cussing anyone out. I had some come to my site as well and leave bad language...

People can disagree thats fine, but there is no need to use profanity to do that, least not directed at people .

[Br. Max]

Well, when your information minister goes on other sites and cusses people out, that's gotta be bad for the image. you just gotta love iddie!

[Br. Max]

hey, I posted in there.......I am only a supervisor, and that just barely, I wonder if I am considered staff by even staff you hadn't posted yet when I made that comment. :p check your times.

[kimber1]

i'm crossing my fingers

[Br. Max]

that thread is a veritable who's who of rabble rousers, trouble makers and former staff!! WHAT - I repeat myself. ;)

[kimber1]

what i find most intriguing is him saying this was a unilateral decision and he was annoucning it to staff at the same time as members. so staff had no idea? i bet that burst a few bubbles.

[herev]

this fits with a note I got from him, too. Let's be prayerful and hopeful!

[Br. Max]

this fits with a note I got from him, too. Let's be prayerful and hopeful!:shock: You must be special. Notes from erwin . . . . ;)

[Paris]

oh my god, Erwin is trying to take Harry Potter's spotlight! He is such a diva, I hope this isn't a stunt for attention? What is P_G going to do? He will be totally sadden! Oh, I shall pray for him.

[Tonks]

So long as it doesn't turn into CARM or Catholic Answers (little doubt about the latter...) I think things will be ok.

[ToyotaCamry]

*aside* What's happened with Catholic Answers?

[pdudgeon]

isn't it great!!! I'm so glad to see Erwin coming back.

[monkeywrench]

I agree, Its always bad when anyone goes cussing anyone out. I had some come to my site as well and leave bad language...

People can disagree thats fine, but there is no need to use profanity to do that, least not directed at people .Hey, didn't know that was you! I'm WalksWithChrist in case you didn't know.

Sorry once again for posting the cussing...but at least it wasn't *my* cussing!
;)


I'm pretty excited about the upcoming sweep.

[Apex]

So long as it doesn't turn into CARM or Catholic Answers (little doubt about the latter...) I think things will be ok.Oh if it turns into CARM Im finished. That place is despicable. But from what Erwin said it doesnt sound like it will. He said he was going to remove some the restrictions, for it to become CARM all Erwin had to do was keep CF going the way it has been.

[drstevej]

I keep waiting for Jeff to chime in and commend Erwin for his leadership.

[Crazy Liz]

isn't it great!!! I'm so glad to see Erwin coming back.

I'm not sure Erwin is coming back, at least in the sense some of you seem to think, or in the sense intended by drstevej's petition. He said there would be new rules & a new method for choosing staff.

It sounds to me like he has concluded his first attempt to put things in order so that he could let go the reins didn't work out, so he has another plan in mind for trying to stabilize the site without his hands-on leadership.

Of course, I could be wrong, but I don't read in his announcement any intention of resuming day-to-day leadership.

That doesn't mean the changes won't be good. It just means I don't think they will be a return to the Good Olde Days.

[Athene]

You're probably right CL, but I hope that Erwin will be more involved then he has been - if he wants CF to continue in his vision then really he has to be.

[drstevej]

I'm not sure Erwin is coming back, at least in the sense some of you seem to think, or in the sense intended by drstevej's petition. He said there would be new rules & a new method for choosing staff.

It sounds to me like he has concluded his first attempt to put things in order so that he could let go the reins didn't work out, so he has another plan in mind for trying to stabilize the site without his hands-on leadership.

Of course, I could be wrong, but I don't read in his announcement any intention of resuming day-to-day leadership.

That doesn't mean the changes won't be good. It just means I don't think they will be a return to the Good Olde Days.

I've come to realise that this is my website in the end, and it is my responsibility to ensure that it stays within my vision of how it should be.

If he really means this he will need to be around more.

[herev]

hey, I posted in there.......I am only a supervisor, and that just barely, I wonder if I am considered staff by even staff

You are considered as staff and valued.. :)
here, here!

[herev]

what i find most intriguing is him saying this was a unilateral decision and he was annoucning it to staff at the same time as members. so staff had no idea? i bet that burst a few bubbles.

makes me wish I still had eyes in the forums:D

[herev]

:shock: You must be special. Notes from erwin . . . . ;)

I have been trying to dialogue with him for a while now. I even resurrected herev so I could do so under that name. He's responded favorably to most, though I have been very patient as I know he has been away and busy. But I've been optimistic and impressed so far. I still have a lot of confidence in Erwin and a passion for the vision (as I understood it when I joined CF).

[herev]

I'm not sure Erwin is coming back, at least in the sense some of you seem to think, or in the sense intended by drstevej's petition. He said there would be new rules & a new method for choosing staff.

It sounds to me like he has concluded his first attempt to put things in order so that he could let go the reins didn't work out, so he has another plan in mind for trying to stabilize the site without his hands-on leadership.

Of course, I could be wrong, but I don't read in his announcement any intention of resuming day-to-day leadership.

That doesn't mean the changes won't be good. It just means I don't think they will be a return to the Good Olde Days.
we shall see, but I remain hopeful

[herev]

If he really means this he will need to be around more.

agreed

[Pippa]

Hey, didn't know that was you! I'm WalksWithChrist in case you didn't know.

Sorry once again for posting the cussing...but at least it wasn't *my* cussing!
;)


I'm pretty excited about the upcoming sweep.

You are ok in my books :razz: no you didnt do the cussing... and I am glad that we were able to clear that little matter up.. btw, I passed on the blessings to someone that really needed them and was blessed by them, so thanks so much.

[monkeywrench]

You are ok in my books :razz: no you didnt do the cussing... and I am glad that we were able to clear that little matter up.. btw, I passed on the blessings to someone that really needed them and was blessed by them, so thanks so much.You're very welcome!

[DarkAngelic]

I have hope for CF, change can always be good.

[ravenscape]

Hi ravenscape, at CF I am poppinskw :-)

Ah! Welcome! erm....belated welcome...

[Crazy Liz]

we shall see, but I remain hopeful

Guardedly hopeful, here. I think he has good intentions & probably has a good handle on the current problems. I just wonder whether his new idea (or any idea, for that matter) can fix the problems without an overwhelming amount of unintended consequences and without requiring more of Erwin's personal time & attention than he is able & willing to devote.

[Tonks]

makes me wish I still had eyes in the forums:D

Hey Tommy,

For the most part it was greeted with relief, I think. There is, admittedly, some trepidation as the announcement was somewhat cryptic. Whether anything is solved in the short-run (or the long-run) remains to be seen, of course. That being said, however, I suppose the hope is that the constant banging back and forth between several groups will cease - or at least deescalate to a dull roar.

[herev]

Hey Tommy,

For the most part it was greeted with relief, I think. There is, admittedly, some trepidation as the announcement was somewhat cryptic. Whether anything is solved in the short-run (or the long-run) remains to be seen, of course. That being said, however, I suppose the hope is that the constant banging back and forth between several groups will cease - or at least deescalate to a dull roar.thanks, I appreciate the info.
Let's pray it goes well.

[seebs]

http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=36415431

Discuss.

I have zero to negative confidence that this will address the serious and underlying problems.

The lack of fiscal accountability suggests to me that the most rational thing is to view this, like every other policy decision, entirely in terms of financial outcomes. I do not believe that there is a sincere interest in fixing the underlying problems. The marriage ruling and the pro-life ribbon ruling have made it very clear that CF is dedicated to obtaining the numerically-largest membership it can, by excluding anyone that makes other people uncomfortable. With that as a constant, no amount of reform can change anything signficant, and I see no reason at all to believe that it is not a constant.

When I see a public statement by whoever's in charge that those rulings were both absolutely contrary to the site's stated mission, and the people who made them have either clearly and publically repented, or left staff, I will entertain the notion that this is anything but another dog and pony show intended to make people say things are okay, keep membership numbers up, and keep the ad money flowing.

[drstevej]

Seebs, I do not think Erwin is trying to solve the problem you (or I) perceive, he is seeking to restore his vision. The changes, whatever they are and regardless of their effectiveness will speak loudly about his philosophy of ministry.

Their effectiveness will speak to his leadership and ability to put the right leaders in place to make his vision work.

I just am hoping to see the Nehemiah Center liberated from CF. And I am curious to see what the Doctor prescribes for his patient. Will tell us what he thinks is the disease.

[seebs]

Well, that's the thing. What IS Erwin's vision?

For the last two or three years, CF has consistently gone further and further from anything I could have associated with the phrase "uniting all Christians as one body". Is he going to keep that phrase? Is he going to mean anything by it?

[Tonks]

Seebs, I do not think Erwin is trying to solve the problem you (or I) perceive, he is seeking to restore his vision.

Not directed at you...does anyone have a concrete idea of what the original (or evolving) vision was....? I'm talking after Ewrin was solely in control of the site. I tried searching today to glean hints but did not have enough time to look through everything.

Anyone know the bottom line w/ supporting bullet points....?

[seebs]

Way back when, according to both Erwin and Josephus, it was "uniting all Christians as one body" -- that is to say, a site where all Christians could come together, learn about each others' beliefs, talk, and grow in the faith.

This ran into problems when it was discovered that not all Christians agreed on who else was Christian, or on what beliefs could be tolerated in Christians.

[drstevej]

Not directed at you...does anyone have a concrete idea of what the original (or evolving) vision was....? I'm talking after Ewrin was solely in control of the site. I tried searching today to glean hints but did not have enough time to look through everything.

Anyone know the bottom line w/ supporting bullet points....?

Go to the CR and search on "The Schizophrenic Nature of CF" and read the first post.

[Tonks]

Go to the CR and search on "The Schizophrenic Nature of CF" and read the first post.


Thanks. I found myself in agreement with the OP.

[drstevej]

Thanks. I found myself in agreement with the OP.

I reminded Erwin of that in a PM when I posted the petition.

[Apex]

Go to the CR and search on "The Schizophrenic Nature of CF" and read the first post.
Whats the CR?

[drstevej]

CR = staff Conference Room

[GraceInHim]

Way back when, according to both Erwin and Josephus, it was "uniting all Christians as one body" -- that is to say, a site where all Christians could come together, learn about each others' beliefs, talk, and grow in the faith.

This ran into problems when it was discovered that not all Christians agreed on who else was Christian, or on what beliefs could be tolerated in Christians.

bolded This is a major problem on CF for me.. when people say or look into a member whom is a Christian to see if they are indeed a Christian. :|

[JeffreyLloyd]

Steve, do you feel it's gone to far one way or the other?

[Jello]

Steve, do you feel it's gone to far one way or the other?

I'm not Steve, but my opinion is this: We must have a Captain. That Captain must be Erwin. If he is at the helm, then I believe all things will work themselves out.

I trust Erwin, and I trust that he will eventually do whatever needs to be done. Whatever that might encompass. What he has tried has not worked. And now he is going to try something else. I am very pleased that he is still with us. For a long time now, I thought he was gone. Just the fact that he is still with us is a great relief.

[JeffreyLloyd]

I'm not Steve, but my opinion is this: We must have a Captain. That Captain must be Erwin. If he is at the helm, then I believe all things will work themselves out.

I trust Erwin, and I trust that he will eventually do whatever needs to be done. Whatever that might encompass. What he has tried has not worked. And now he is going to try something else. I am very pleased that he is still with us. For a long time now, I thought he was gone. Just the fact that he is still with us is a great relief.

I agree, I am happy to see Erwin again. :)

[drstevej]

Steve, do you feel it's gone to far one way or the other?


No Nicene liberal on Alpha
Historic Protestants largely gone from staff and defined so Trads qualify
50% of voting Alpha is Messianic
Ombudsman/Conciliator firings and frustrated departures
Alpha can blackball staff returns without giving reasons
Alpha hides in a bunker or makes announcements that are untrue

It is time for a shake up. And it should start with Exec. They had the keys while CF lost its way.

[drstevej]

I'm not Steve, but my opinion is this: We must have a Captain. That Captain must be Erwin. If he is at the helm, then I believe all things will work themselves out.

I trust Erwin, and I trust that he will eventually do whatever needs to be done. Whatever that might encompass. What he has tried has not worked. And now he is going to try something else. I am very pleased that he is still with us. For a long time now, I thought he was gone. Just the fact that he is still with us is a great relief.

My petition said CF was broken and needed Erwin to return to the ministry God gave to him.
His announcement confirms those who signed the petition.
Glad to have him back and hope he stays at the helm. He is indispensible if his vision is to be implemented.

Kumbayah Dammit didn't work.

[seebs]

I am glad to see Erwin back, but I am not particularly optimistic about fixes. Unless Exec were totally lying, he backed every one of their bad decisions, and he's consistently sat around making "it's okay, I thought of a vB hack to solve this" noises while people got hurt.

I guess I just don't have any basis for confidence at this point.

[drstevej]

I am glad to see Erwin back, but I am not particularly optimistic about fixes. Unless Exec were totally lying, he backed every one of their bad decisions, and he's consistently sat around making "it's okay, I thought of a vB hack to solve this" noises while people got hurt.

I guess I just don't have any basis for confidence at this point.

The structure of Alpha after 7-7-7 will tell the tale.

[Tonks]

The structure of Alpha after 7-7-7 will tell the tale.


I'm guessing we'll see some old faces on there...

[Jello]

My petition said CF was broken and needed Erwin to return to the ministry God gave to him.
His announcement confirms those who signed the petition.
Glad to have him back and hope he stays at the helm. He is indispensible if his vision is to be implemented.

Kumbayah Dammit didn't work.


Agreed. :)

[pdudgeon]

I'm guessing we'll see some old faces on there...

we can only hope and pray this is so all thru staff.;)

[Tonks]

we can only hope and pray this is so all thru staff.;)

So long as the penchant for politics is gone and they, um, want to move the site forward it would be nice. I don't have much of a desire to return to the Catholic/Protestant battles of yesteryear...

[kiwimac]

Tonks said I'm guessing we'll see some old faces on there...

Know it won't be mine! :D

[ravenscape]

My hopes are tempered by cynicism. The subset of changes that would satsify ALL of the so called loud few without raising the ire of some, are so restricted that it's hard to picture much of a difference from the current status.

[Pippa]

I would like to see reconciliation and healing and peace...
When so much time is taken up with arguing and pulling each other down and not listening and respecting each other, the site will just not move anywhere but downwards..

We are each different, maybe if we could listen and learn to accept the differences in each other and then we may just realise that there are plenty of things we can agree on.

The changes to the site dont need to stop there, the changes also need to happen to each of us within our hearts and attitudes.

I know that first off before anyone else the changes need to start with me.

[Athene]

I am glad to see Erwin back, but I am not particularly optimistic about fixes. Unless Exec were totally lying, he backed every one of their bad decisions, and he's consistently sat around making "it's okay, I thought of a vB hack to solve this" noises while people got hurt.

I guess I just don't have any basis for confidence at this point.

But remember Erwin did say that he had been considering selling or simply closing the site. I would guess that when he backed those decisions he was not thinking of the future of CF and the direction he feels it should go but rather sooner or later CF was going to be out of his hands . . . or something like that.

[monkeywrench]

I would like to see reconciliation and healing and peace...
When so much time is taken up with arguing and pulling each other down and not listening and respecting each other, the site will just not move anywhere but downwards..

We are each different, maybe if we could listen and learn to accept the differences in each other and then we may just realise that there are plenty of things we can agree on.

The changes to the site dont need to stop there, the changes also need to happen to each of us within our hearts and attitudes.

I know that first off before anyone else the changes need to start with me.Amen...

[Br. Max]

I agree. GAH - YOU really need to change monkeywrench. ;)

[monkeywrench]

I agree. GAH - YOU really need to change monkeywrench. ;)I do it for you Max!
:lol:

[ELyarek]

You're probably right CL, but I hope that Erwin will be more involved then he has been - if he wants CF to continue in his vision then really he has to be.For one so disfranchised from CF, I actually think Erwin had a fairly good plan when he 'left'. It may have been more ideal if he could have remained more hands-on until establishing an agreeable track record of those appointed to 'replace' him as stewards of his vision, but I find it wholly do-able to have the site run well within the parameters of his 'vision' without his being hands-on on a continual basis.

The great disappointment, other than his own departure from his stated 'vision', was in the manner of stewardship of those entrusted with the care of his 'vision'. They simply were inadequate for the task. A better stewardship might have been more reasonably entrusted to, IMHO, members like Crazy Liz, ravenscape, or even any number of 'junior' staff (and even including myself) who were held accountable and proven capable of separating the fair and personable moderation of a discussion board on the construct of Erwin's 'vision' from other aspects of their participation within the site's 'community'. Most CF Admins have proven rather convincingly that they are incapable of this, or even of listening to any voice but their own.

[ravenscape]

I'd druther juggle hot coals. Nooooooo thanks!

[monkeywrench]

I'd druther juggle hot coals. Nooooooo thanks!Take your pick!!

http://www.lambakjot.is/lambakjot/upload/images/templates/hot_coals.jpg

[Apex]

http://www.christianforums.com/t5657050

WOW!!! It seems Erwin read my mind or something with the changes that are going to occur at CF. I really hope he continues with these changes, they look extremely promising and are what a lot of people have wanted for a long time.

[Garnet]

Wow is right!!!! Wow.

[drstevej]

http://www.christianforums.com/t5657050

WOW!!! It seems Erwin read my mind or something with the changes that are going to occur at CF. I really hope he continues with these changes, they look extremely promising and are what a lot of people have wanted for a long time.


Should be a field day for the Mormons.
Congrats

[ravenscape]

I'm speechless. And I was far too pessimistic.

[Apex]

CF = Uber

[Apex]

Should be a field day for the Mormons.
CongratsBeing treated as equals... its only what we have been asking for for years. :)

[JeffreyLloyd]

CF = Uber

If I were seebs and Flesh, I would sue :D

[JeffreyLloyd]

Being treated as equals... its only what we have been asking for for years. :)

Congrats on becoming a Christian today ;)

[Tears of Ash]

How do I change my faith icon now?

[JeffreyLloyd]

How do I change my faith icon now?

Ask me at CF and I will get it done for you

[Tears of Ash]

Which one are you at CF? P_G or Iddie4him?

[Apex]

hes the same name

[Goodchild]

Which one are you at CF? P_G or Iddie4him?

He's JeffreyLloyd I believe lol

[Br. Max]

Which one are you at CF? P_G or Iddie4him?DANG IT!! SEEBS! FLESH! YOu guys have GOT To get rid of this limit on rep!

[Tears of Ash]

Hmm...since mine isn't on there, I'll have to take a moment to decide which religion is closest to the one I do/don't practice.

Will my blog disappear now?

[Goodchild]

Ok, so which of you is Purifying Flame? I can't laugh along at the joke if I'm not sure who i'm talking to lol

[Tears of Ash]

That's BR max, right?

[Goodchild]

That's BR max, right?

I think so, but i'm not sure. And i've agreed with him on more than one thing before ... just not a whole lot of things lol :mrgreen:

[praying]

That's BR max, right?

Correct!

[Br. Max]

Ok, so which of you is Purifying Flame? I can't laugh along at the joke if I'm not sure who i'm talking to lolhttp://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h302/brmax/smilies/nahnah.gif

[ELyarek]

Looks like I'm still banned. I must be a troll. :biggrinangelA:

[monkeywrench]

Should be a field day for the Mormons.
CongratsWell, the good thing is that you and anyone else is free to follow them around and debate them!
:popcorn:

[Apex]

Well, the good thing is that you and anyone else is free to follow them around and debate them!
:popcorn:He ain't interested in debating with us.

[monkeywrench]

He ain't interested in debating with us.I really wonder why. Seems like he was having a grand time here.

[ExOh]

wow.. it sounds a bit too good to be true but mebbe that's just me! ha.