Pro-Life atheist faggot

[Columbus]

And a bit mouthy when annoyed. :P My partner of many years, Doug, is the nice one. We live in a small community in rural Indiana.
I was born and raised Catholic, but ran away from religion at an early age.
Sharp cheddar or parmesan.
Tom

[BigToe]

so you knew I would ask you about cheese. Hmmmm.

If you were invisible for a day, what would you do and why?

Welcome, by the way. I look forward to getting to know you around this here circus.

[ravenscape]

Hi Columbus,

I think I remember you from back when I posted at IATL. Welcome!

[gomichan]

Howdy, welcome aboard!

[Joykins]

Welcome :)

[Columbus]

If you were invisible for a day, what would you do and why?
I'd probably spend most of it trying to regain my visibility. Would I hypothetically know when it would return? Would I be invisible to people only, or God too? Could dogs smell me? If I were smoking, would my cigarette be visible?
I'd probably spend the day exploring invisibility. Just about the time I decided to join George Clooney in the shower or something, I'd pop back into view :oops:
Tom

[protinus]

Welcome Columbus!! :)

[Gabriel]

I'm a pro-choice agnostic faggot (do not be fooled by my wedding ring). Hello. :P

[BelindaP]

If you were invisible for a day, what would you do and why?
I'd probably spend most of it trying to regain my visibility. Would I hypothetically know when it would return? Would I be invisible to people only, or God too? Could dogs smell me? If I were smoking, would my cigarette be visible?
I'd probably spend the day exploring invisibility. Just about the time I decided to join George Clooney in the shower or something, I'd pop back into view :oops:
Tom

I like people who ask a bunch of clarifying questions in response to another question. It shows a broad depth of thinking largely absent on many Christian discussion boards. Welcome aboard. I look forward to getting to know you.

[Texas Lynn]

You're not a bad gie but I never noticed where u from befo.

Are you an Amish who never came back from rumpaspringa?

[Columbus]

You're not a bad gie but I never noticed where u from befo.

Heh
Well then your partner has been PMing me behind your back. Sorry to break it to you, dudette. Want copies? It was on another forum. Can you even guess which one?

Are you an Amish who never came back from rumpaspringa?Closest I ever came to the Amish was when I was a member of a "naturist resort" in Amish country, Switzerland county Indiana to be exact. The Amish were perfect neighbors. They never get into anyone else's business. They expect those "English" to act that way. Doesn't matter if you're starting a war or running around naked. It's all the same to them.
Tom

[Columbus]

I like people who ask a bunch of clarifying questions in response to another question. It shows a broad depth of thinking largely absent on many Christian discussion boards. Welcome aboard. I look forward to getting to know you.I knew I'd like you when I first saw your answer to the cheese question. 8)
Eventually you might get tired of the questions. Then, again, maybe not. You are a sharp cheddar sort of gal.
Tom

[Columbus]

I'm a pro-choice agnostic faggot (do not be fooled by my wedding ring). Hello. :PHey I've got a wedding ring. Put your feet up, let me tell you a story.
Doug and I are as different as night and day. We never got together on purpose, y'know like Together. It just sort of happened, about 14 years ago. The closest we ever came to a ceremony was one day, when Doug had been living at my house for awhile. I said "Listen Doug. If you aren't ever going to go home, then why don't you help out with the bills around here?" This wasn't a monogamous "til death do us part" kind of thing. He used me, I used him, neither one cared. It wasn't like we ever decided "Let's stay together until we die, and not screw around, and share everything, and try to support each other as best we can until we can't any more". It just kept growing until that's what it was.
About nine years ago Doug wanted a union ceremony with rings and stuff. He is such a romantic. I am not. I do not want a ceremony that emphasizes the second class nature(legally) of our marriage. Everybody who knows us knows we're married, and I don't give a s**t about anyone who doesn't get it. I compromised with rings. Another fight. I think wedding rings should be simple gold bands with no nonsense. Doug is a silver sort of person. (I think it's a chrome fetish, let's not talk about the fights we have over his buying Corvettes and car stuff) I tried to find suitable rings that had both. No luck. Eventually it occured to me that I could get two smaller bands of yellow gold and two smaller bands of white gold, and have the jeweler solder them together so we each have a band of Tom and a band of Doug soldered together.
When we picked them up at the jewelry store I told the nice white-bread lady at the counter that she had just married us, since she'd handed us the rings. I'm such an evil person. :twisted:

I find that the terms agnostic and atheist are usually dependent on the context. I'm not a strong atheist which makes me an agnostic to some people. On atheist forums I usually identify as an agnostic christian. That probably tells you something important about me. The way I figure it, any term based on The Unknowable is inherently indefinable.

I too am very much in favor of choice. But when you've already made the choice then the responsibilities come into the picture. If you aren't willing to take responsibility for your choices then you aren't in a position to make them. Someone else will have to do it for you.

I like these introduction threads. I can talk about me to my hearts content. On the Atheist Network it went on for way over a hundred posts. There, my screen name was "Hevvin Machine". Was that ever a hoot!!
Tom

[notMumbai]

When we picked them up at the jewelry store I told the nice white-bread lady at the counter that she had just married us, since she'd handed us the rings. I'm such an evil person.


LMAOOOOOOO! You are a bad apple. I love it. :twisted:

I move back and forth between NJ and MA, so I would be able to marry someone of the same gender legally, but that was a good one. :D

[Columbus]

When we picked them up at the jewelry store I told the nice white-bread lady at the counter that she had just married us, since she'd handed us the rings. I'm such an evil person.


LMAOOOOOOO! You are a bad apple. I love it. :twisted:

I move back and forth between NJ and MA, so I would be able to marry someone of the same gender legally, but that was a good one. :DIt would certainly be nice if you could marry us without our having to move to New England! Thanks for the thought.
Smooch,
Tom

[Gabriel]

I like the sound of your rings, and your story.


Mine's complicated: I'm a post-op ftm man, attracted solely to men, yet partnered with a woman that I actually love ... even if, as we speak, she is burrowing around in the bed making sounds that one might possibly associate with a badger instead of a human.

My marriage took place in my dining room several years ago. I had one of my friends (also v. gay) make us a pair of rings. I read a long poem that I had written for her. She cried and said nothing - no vows, no nothing, just blubbering and sniffling. Eventually, she managed to squeak out that she loved me, and we exchanged the rings.

The rings are white gold with a bezel set triangular natural sapphire. I wanted something more fancy for hers, but she designed this and I capitulated.

I'd like to have the piece of paper for all of the legal reasons, but recently got shafted on that when I found out the state I was born in does not accept what I've had done as SRS and will not change my certificate.

If I wanted to have a church wedding (sans paper, of course), I actually know two people who would be more than happy to do it, but she finds it all distasteful, and I'm satisfied with what we did on our own.

I believe in a God; I'm just not entirely sure who/what it is, and hanging out here has demonstrated to me that people are quite fond of their labels and I wouldn't begin to know what kind to affix to myself, other than that.

heh - a big part of my reasons for being pro-choice is sad and disturbing: while I was growing up, my mother told me several times that she wished she had had an abortion, and that I ruined her life. She'd been on the pill. I would rather other kids be spared having parents who hate and resent them from day one, whether that means adoption or abortion. I don't know why she ultimately kept me, though I can only assume some maternal instinct must have kicked in for ten minutes, or maybe just guilt.

Between all of that, and a couple of instances of almost dying but barely managing to avoid it, I can only assume I exist for some important reason. :P

[notMumbai]

It would certainly be nice if you could marry us without our having to move to New England! Thanks for the thought.
Smooch,
Tom

Indeed it would be (even though Mass is the greatest state in the country, IMHO), but I'm workin' on that, too. :wink:

[Columbus]

Between all of that, and a couple of instances of almost dying but barely managing to avoid it, I can only assume I exist for some important reason. :PI'm absolutely sure you do. Not that I know what it is specifically. But I'm sure you do. That's why I am such a hard-core Right-to-Lifer.
heh - a big part of my reasons for being pro-choice is sad and disturbing: while I was growing up, my mother told me several times that she wished she had had an abortion, and that I ruined her life. She'd been on the pill. I would rather other kids be spared having parents who hate and resent them from day one, whether that means adoption or abortion. Ironic isn't it. I, too, was the child of bio-parents who didn't want me. Bio-dad was married to someone else before I was even born. Fortunately for me I was conceived in 1958, or I'd have probably wound up in a hospital dumpster. Also, I had the good fortune to be put up for adoption. My real parents wanted me. I'm terribly sorry that your mother didn't do that. But I'm very glad that you've found somebody you love and loves you back.
Tom

[Gabriel]

Ironic isn't it. I, too, was the child of bio-parents who didn't want me. Bio-dad was married to someone else before I was even born. Fortunately for me I was conceived in 1958, or I'd have probably wound up in a hospital dumpster. Also, I had the good fortune to be put up for adoption. My real parents wanted me.
Tom

It's good to hear another adoption success story. I'm glad the right people found you.

I used to be shocked when people had families different from mine, but now I'm just intensely grateful that good families do exist.

[stumpjumper]

Welcome Columbus! I remember you from IATL...

[Columbus]

Welcome Columbus! I remember you from IATL...Hi Stumpy. I certainly remember you too. Good to see you!
Tom

[Texas Lynn]

Well then your partner has been PMing me behind your back. Sorry to break it to you, dudette. Want copies? It was on another forum. Can you even guess which one?

I knew about that.

[Columbus]

Well then your partner has been PMing me behind your back. Sorry to break it to you, dudette. Want copies? It was on another forum. Can you even guess which one?

I knew about that.Of course you did. It never entered my mind that you might not. The only real question I had was "Who is PMing me, LP or TL?" It didn't really matter though. I had no way to find out so I just had faith that it was LP.

FULL DISCLOSURE!! Texas Lynn and I are both so queer that our partners PMing the other is not really that juicy of a story.
Tom

[Texas Lynn]

Well then your partner has been PMing me behind your back. Sorry to break it to you, dudette. Want copies? It was on another forum. Can you even guess which one?

I knew about that.Of course you did. It never entered my mind that you might not. The only real question I had was "Who is PMing me, LP or TL?" It didn't really matter though. I had no way to find out so I just had faith that it was LP.

FULL DISCLOSURE!! Texas Lynn and I are both so queer that our partners PMing the other is not really that juicy of a story.
Tom

Now you're really going to confuse those people who come from some of the conservative religious traditions and have trouble with the spouse of one couple talking to the opposite-gendered spouse of another couple. If they process it they might conclude us talking or you and Liz talking is okay but bis shouldn't talk to anybody.

[seebs]

Now you're really going to confuse those people who come from some of the conservative religious traditions and have trouble with the spouse of one couple talking to the opposite-gendered spouse of another couple. If they process it they might conclude us talking or you and Liz talking is okay but bis shouldn't talk to anybody.

It's not a religious tradition, but a cultural norm. I knew a guy who was absolutely mystified that I was friends with a woman. (In fact, I met her through her husband.) It just wasn't how things were done in his world; cultural norm, not visibly religious. It gets phrased in terms of religion largely because people tend to ascribe their cultural norms to their religion.

[Lanakila]

I think the cultural part of it fits the south, and rural US a lot more than the west, the north, or cites, btw.

[UberLutheran]

You play bassoon, columbus?

(This is an obscure pun unless you're a musician.)

[UberLutheran]

Well then your partner has been PMing me behind your back. Sorry to break it to you, dudette. Want copies? It was on another forum. Can you even guess which one?

I knew about that.Of course you did. It never entered my mind that you might not. The only real question I had was "Who is PMing me, LP or TL?" It didn't really matter though. I had no way to find out so I just had faith that it was LP.

FULL DISCLOSURE!! Texas Lynn and I are both so queer that our partners PMing the other is not really that juicy of a story.
Tom

I'm either really, really progressive or really, really naive:

I didn't think PMing people who were not my partner was a big deal. He does it; I do it -- Lord knows we have friends all over the world and I never thought a thing of it!

[ravenscape]

You play bassoon, columbus?

(This is an obscure pun unless you're a musician.)

:lol: I think I told you once about my high school friend who played bassoon. He still does.

[cas07]

I'm either really, really progressive or really, really naive:

I didn't think PMing people who were not my partner was a big deal. He does it; I do it -- Lord knows we have friends all over the world and I never thought a thing of it! :shock: i must be really, really progressive or really, really naive as well! my hubby and i both have friends of both sexes from all walks of life, and it would never occur to me for it to be an issue. but how can that be? i am a socal conservative, so how can i be progressive? i must be naive...or i really have trust in my hubby that he would not break our vows any more than i would. i travel quite a bit, and as a result spend a lot of time in the company of men not known by my hubby, but there is that trust thing going on between us that allows for me (and for him) to be friends with people the other doesn't know.
on the other hand, i do of instances where people have crossed the line with someone on the net, so i can see where there may be concerns.

[UberLutheran]

And a bit mouthy when annoyed. :P My partner of many years, Doug, is the nice one. We live in a small community in rural Indiana.
I was born and raised Catholic, but ran away from religion at an early age.
Sharp cheddar or parmesan.
Tom

Just out of curiosity (and this is a curiousity question ONLY -- I promise I'm not going to 'witness' to you!) what was it about religion that soured you on it?

Reason I asked: my partner grew up in a STRICT Catholic home -- Mass every Sunday and all the holy days, Confession every Saturday evening, Catechism classes after school -- the works. The whole experience pretty much vaccinated him against Christianity -- in fact, my devotion to my Lutheran faith and my parish were an issue for some time early on in our relationship, even though my parish was quite liberal.

Again -- just curious.

As far as Cheddar or Parmesan: Parmesan cooks better when added to recipes; but cheddar is the cheese of choice for melting on top of something.

UL

[Texas Lynn]

Now you're really going to confuse those people who come from some of the conservative religious traditions and have trouble with the spouse of one couple talking to the opposite-gendered spouse of another couple. If they process it they might conclude us talking or you and Liz talking is okay but bis shouldn't talk to anybody.

It's not a religious tradition, but a cultural norm. I knew a guy who was absolutely mystified that I was friends with a woman. (In fact, I met her through her husband.) It just wasn't how things were done in his world; cultural norm, not visibly religious. It gets phrased in terms of religion largely because people tend to ascribe their cultural norms to their religion.

That's what I meant.

I like this line from Paul Fussell from Class: A Guide to the American Status System-keep in mind he's referring to people who are heterosexual in general:

When two couples ride together in a car, if they're proles, one couple will sit in front and the other in back. If they're middle class the men will sit in front and the women in back. If they're upper middle class the husband of one sits in front with the wife of the other couple, and his wife sits in back with the other husband.

Oversimplistic, I know, but does well at showing how status and safety go hand in hand.

[Columbus]

FULL DISCLOSURE!! Texas Lynn and I are both so queer that our partners PMing the other is not really that juicy of a story.
Tom

Now you're really going to confuse those people who come from some of the conservative religious traditions [/quote]You and I have a bit of history doing that. Tom, the atheist, defending the sanctity of life against you, a christian, has often been an interesting anomaly. Not that you are the only non-Pro-Life christian that I have ever met. Quite the contrary, christians as a rule support other values.
I suppose my "Full Disclosure" bit was a dig at FL. That wasn't very nice. :oops:
Tom

[Columbus]

Just out of curiosity (and this is a curiousity question ONLY -- I promise I'm not going to 'witness' to you!) what was it about religion that soured you on it?
Nothing really soured me on it. I like going to High Mass. I'm looking forward to Easter Vigil Mass with my friend.
I just don't believe what I am told about the Unknowable. I was in the 3rd or 4th grade when I realized why I was uncomfortable in Religion class. I understood Math and English and History and whatever, even if if I hadn't done my homework. But the more I learned about Religion the more I knew that the teacher didn't know anything more about it than I did. It wasn't a subject based on reality, it was a subject based on authority. Once I realized that what was being taught wasn't information about reality, but information about someone's opinion, I was on my way out. As soon as I learned what the term atheist meant I knew that it described me. The existence of the word meant I wasn't the only one.
Later, I did sour on the concept of being religious. Being religious means attributing one's opinions to God. I've mostly come to terms with that now, as being part of the world that I live in. But it is not the same as religion.
I have beliefs that would fit some definitions of religion. The biggest difference between me and theists is that I see no reason to think I'm right, and they see no reason to think they're wrong.
Tom

[Columbus]

it would never occur to me for it to be an issue. but how can that be? i am a socal conservative, so how can i be progressive? i must be naive...I see myself as so conservative that I sometimes appear liberal!
Tom

[Columbus]

You play bassoon, columbus?

(This is an obscure pun unless you're a musician.)Sorry Ube, too obscure for me. I've been trying to figure it out. I know what a basson is, but I can't figure out the pun.
Do tell,
Tom

[gomichan]

When two couples ride together in a car, if they're proles, one couple will sit in front and the other in back. If they're middle class the men will sit in front and the women in back. If they're upper middle class the husband of one sits in front with the wife of the other couple, and his wife sits in back with the other husband.

And if you're punk-ass clowns like me and Seebs and our crew, I drive cuz it's my damn car, whoever calls 'shotgun!' first gets the front seat, and the folks in the back seat have to shout to the people in the front seat because I play the music too loud. :D

[seebs]

That's what I meant.

I like this line from Paul Fussell from Class: A Guide to the American Status System-keep in mind he's referring to people who are heterosexual in general:

When two couples ride together in a car, if they're proles, one couple will sit in front and the other in back. If they're middle class the men will sit in front and the women in back. If they're upper middle class the husband of one sits in front with the wife of the other couple, and his wife sits in back with the other husband.

Oversimplistic, I know, but does well at showing how status and safety go hand in hand.

I remember something much like this, but I recall it being that lower-class was "split by gender" and middle-class was "sorted by couples". My vague recollection, though, agrees with yours that the upper-class thing is to split couples up. Same thing happens when arranging dinner tables.

[Gabriel]

Neither of us drive. If we happen to be in a car with someone else, my wife sits in the front seat because she wears ankle length skirts and it's easier to get in and out of the front than the back. I usually sit directly behind her.

Neither of us tend to speak loudly, and I try to seat us close together at any public function, because I know otherwise we will spend the entire evening exchanging meaningful looks and being completely silent unless I get drunk enough to start being audible.

[protinus]

Neither of us tend to speak loudly Not possible being New Yorkers!! :lol: :lol: